WEBVTT 00:10.360 --> 00:11.180 Thanks a lot. 00:12.240 --> 00:14.560 I will be a bit unusual speaker for this meeting. 00:15.140 --> 00:18.660 First of all, you will have all the time of my speech illustration in 00:18.660 --> 00:18.960 video. 00:20.020 --> 00:23.080 And that's really something unusual, but as journalists are telling 00:23.080 --> 00:25.460 it, that images speak better than words. 00:26.060 --> 00:28.300 I hope you will enjoy these images, although they are a bit 00:28.300 --> 00:28.680 threatening. 00:29.840 --> 00:33.500 The second point which I want to tell is that I would tell nothing 00:33.500 --> 00:36.460 about order or un-order or disorder of this world. 00:36.460 --> 00:40.300 You will have your own possibility to conclude. 00:40.820 --> 00:42.060 I wouldn't touch it at all. 00:42.640 --> 00:45.160 The only words which I am telling about order are now. 00:45.920 --> 00:50.980 And the third remark which I want to give as an introduction is that 00:50.980 --> 00:54.580 Chernobyl for me, it's not only the energy issue for Russia. 00:54.720 --> 00:58.500 Chernobyl is an image of environmental catastrophe, which happens in 00:58.500 --> 01:00.480 the country and which may happen further on. 01:00.800 --> 01:02.220 By the way, Chernobyl is not in Russia. 01:02.340 --> 01:03.140 Chernobyl is Ukraine. 01:03.980 --> 01:07.520 Just to be clear, sometimes it's a sensitive issue. 01:07.940 --> 01:12.160 I was in Chernobyl many times since 1992, so probably a couple of 01:12.160 --> 01:14.760 dozens of times, bringing journalists and making certain research, 01:14.840 --> 01:15.540 taking samples. 01:16.140 --> 01:17.920 And in fact, it is threatening. 01:18.260 --> 01:19.340 It looks awful. 01:19.860 --> 01:22.340 But speaking generally, there are no yet environmental catastrophes. 01:22.480 --> 01:23.880 Not in Russia, not in the world. 01:23.940 --> 01:25.240 It's not yet there. 01:26.020 --> 01:31.920 But we are slightly moving, and Russia is an example of what direction 01:31.920 --> 01:34.680 the world as a whole is moving nowadays. 01:35.500 --> 01:39.640 The main reason what is happening in Russia now, and which is casing 01:39.640 --> 01:42.640 all other consequences, is catastrophe in people's minds. 01:42.800 --> 01:45.580 Not environmental catastrophe, but real catastrophe in minds. 01:45.880 --> 01:49.680 That is related both to environmental protection, to nuclear, and to 01:49.680 --> 01:52.480 other areas as well, but that I wouldn't touch at all. 01:52.860 --> 01:59.620 And that's occurring both in the residents' minds as well as in the 01:59.620 --> 02:00.600 official minds. 02:00.600 --> 02:04.420 And who is leading the whole thing, the whole catastrophe, in the 02:04.420 --> 02:08.280 minds of Russian president, former or future Vladimir Putin, who is, 02:08.360 --> 02:12.260 by the way, a good friend of Mr. Schroder, is leading in this 02:12.260 --> 02:12.600 catastrophe. 02:13.200 --> 02:14.740 So what is happening in Russia generally? 02:15.320 --> 02:17.940 Environmentalists are normally speaking about catastrophic situation, 02:18.080 --> 02:22.760 and environmental protection and the nuclear industry, which is often 02:22.760 --> 02:28.760 argued by skeptics that exaggeration, that nothing is happening, and 02:28.760 --> 02:32.880 that big scale of the big square of the country neutralizes everything 02:32.880 --> 02:33.500 which is happening. 02:33.620 --> 02:35.820 It is not really true. 02:36.600 --> 02:43.240 And the major part of the dirty production of industry is consumed by 02:43.240 --> 02:43.620 nature. 02:44.080 --> 02:47.720 But it is slightly moving to the catastrophe. 02:48.100 --> 02:51.200 And you can see some pictures on the screen of what is happening. 02:51.420 --> 02:54.340 With two exceptions, all these pictures were taken during the last 02:54.340 --> 02:54.780 three years. 02:54.840 --> 02:57.440 So it's not something which is coming back from the history. 02:57.440 --> 02:59.100 It's current situation. 02:59.400 --> 03:02.960 It's simply not visible to many people in the country. 03:03.360 --> 03:07.520 And the system of protection of nature is totally collapsed as well. 03:07.660 --> 03:12.480 Like one very funny example, funny, it's not a proper word, one very 03:12.480 --> 03:15.720 strange example is there are only 40,000 people who are involved in 03:15.720 --> 03:19.480 nature protection control in the country together, and from them only 03:19.480 --> 03:21.920 15,000 are doing not paperwork. 03:21.920 --> 03:26.420 To compare with 130,000 which was 10 years ago means that it is at 03:26.420 --> 03:28.860 least 8 times decrease of those people who are involved. 03:29.340 --> 03:32.900 With nuclear control issues it's even worse because it was reorganized 03:32.900 --> 03:37.280 during 20 years 18 times, which technically means that there are no 03:37.280 --> 03:38.620 people left inside. 03:38.840 --> 03:42.340 And if you look on nuclear regulations in the country, significant 03:42.340 --> 03:46.820 part of the rights to regulate nuclear industry was given to the same 03:46.820 --> 03:51.340 company which is managing nuclear power plants, Rosatom, state-owned 03:51.340 --> 03:56.180 company, which is both developing nuclear, managing nuclear power, 03:56.300 --> 04:01.020 producing energy, and regulating their own activities. 04:01.380 --> 04:04.900 So that's what is happening now, and that is clearly showing that 04:04.900 --> 04:08.860 catastrophe is in the officials' mind who are doing that. 04:09.260 --> 04:12.560 What was the reason of changing attitude of this environmental 04:12.560 --> 04:13.180 attitude? 04:14.100 --> 04:17.980 A decade ago officials were thinking that there are only environmental 04:17.980 --> 04:24.300 protection laws and physical activities which prevent development of 04:24.300 --> 04:28.200 industry, and authorities were dreaming that industry will immediately 04:28.200 --> 04:31.580 jump up when all the environmental regulations will be canceled. 04:31.960 --> 04:34.480 Regulations were canceled, but nothing happens. 04:34.820 --> 04:36.560 There are no developments in this industry at all. 04:36.560 --> 04:38.060 It's still continuing. 04:38.180 --> 04:42.400 The only change which happens is that a lot of dirty industries was 04:42.400 --> 04:46.080 restarted in Russia or moved to Russia. 04:46.400 --> 04:49.600 And one of the examples, and that will be the last example about 04:49.600 --> 04:52.580 general nature protection, is a plant which is called Narilsky Nickel. 04:53.080 --> 04:57.520 Maybe you've heard about this complex which is located in Arctic, and 04:57.520 --> 05:02.960 it's emitting approximately 10% of substances emitted in Russia. 05:03.720 --> 05:06.260 It's a city of 400,000 people. 05:06.400 --> 05:07.380 It's located in Arctic. 05:07.840 --> 05:11.500 There are no environmental control body in this city. 05:12.160 --> 05:16.520 They are not monitoring atmosphere conditions in this city since 2003. 05:16.840 --> 05:23.460 The explanation is that the office of the body is in bad condition, 05:23.580 --> 05:27.120 that it needs reparations, and since 2003 they don't find out any 05:27.120 --> 05:32.000 money to repair the office of control service in Narilsk. 05:32.000 --> 05:37.520 At the same time, there are around 700 such offices in Russia, and a 05:37.520 --> 05:40.200 few of them were constructed in connection with the Olympic Games 05:40.200 --> 05:43.280 which are planned for 2014 by Mr. Putin as well. 05:43.840 --> 05:47.680 So you can compare their attitude and see how it works. 05:48.500 --> 05:52.080 And just recently, a couple of weeks ago, provincial authorities 05:52.080 --> 05:55.740 allowed this plant not to pay environmental taxes because it's quite 05:55.740 --> 05:56.040 poor. 05:56.040 --> 05:59.220 By the way, that's also a good example of Russian political system, 05:59.500 --> 06:02.360 because for those who are familiar with Russian elections, as you 06:02.360 --> 06:06.640 know, in coming presidential elections there is also another 06:06.640 --> 06:10.080 candidate, Prokhorov, another candidate for the presidency, who is 06:10.080 --> 06:13.580 very often accepted as a liberal candidate by public. 06:13.580 --> 06:18.160 In fact, Mr. Prokhorov for 10 years was owner of the shares of Narilsk 06:18.160 --> 06:20.300 Chemical and top manager of this plant. 06:20.640 --> 06:24.500 And he personally is responsible for the facts which are happening 06:24.500 --> 06:29.020 there and for 300,000 hectares of forest, at least, which were nearly 06:29.020 --> 06:30.920 destructed by this plant. 06:31.240 --> 06:34.560 That reflects well the system and attitude. 06:37.000 --> 06:38.920 And some figures and facts. 06:40.140 --> 06:43.460 In European Russia, less than 10% of intact forest left. 06:44.320 --> 06:46.280 In Siberia, less than 30%. 06:46.280 --> 06:48.980 When you are telling about intact Siberia, it's not true. 06:49.120 --> 06:50.320 It is not intact anymore. 06:50.500 --> 06:51.660 It was seriously cut. 06:51.840 --> 06:55.240 The amount of oil which is flowing to Arctic Ocean from Russia, 06:55.680 --> 06:59.080 according to official records, is half a million tons a year, which is 06:59.080 --> 07:03.960 approximately one-fourth of the oil which is leaking to the oceans in 07:03.960 --> 07:04.460 the world. 07:04.940 --> 07:06.840 One-fourth only through Arctic River. 07:06.940 --> 07:10.500 Official data from the Russian state services, which I can confirm 07:10.500 --> 07:11.600 you, are right. 07:13.060 --> 07:16.560 Share of drinking water source samples, which doesn't correspond with 07:16.560 --> 07:18.540 sanitary norms, is around 30%. 07:18.540 --> 07:22.060 Just to compare it with what was in 1985 during Soviet times. 07:22.140 --> 07:23.200 It was twice more. 07:23.960 --> 07:30.040 And quality of no one of Big River become better since 1995. 07:30.480 --> 07:32.100 I cannot find the previous records. 07:32.200 --> 07:33.340 They are complicated to find. 07:33.440 --> 07:36.760 More than 100 cities in the country have an air pollution higher than 07:36.760 --> 07:37.620 allowable level. 07:38.360 --> 07:43.000 Within nuclear industries, there are 32 nuclear units in Russia, from 07:43.000 --> 07:45.740 which you should consider as a big one, 28. 07:45.960 --> 07:49.700 Four of them are based very far away and are very small. 07:49.700 --> 07:58.960 And there are plans to construct, in the coming 15-20 years, 15 to 35 07:58.960 --> 08:00.700 new nuclear units. 08:02.000 --> 08:05.780 There are different documents and different decisions, but 15 is the 08:05.780 --> 08:06.560 lowest figure. 08:07.120 --> 08:12.000 And after Fukushima catastrophe, the nuclear plans become even more 08:12.000 --> 08:15.140 ambitious, differently from any other part of the world. 08:15.600 --> 08:17.780 They are planning to build more. 08:17.780 --> 08:23.660 And similar to 1985, the officials are explaining that the Russian, at 08:23.660 --> 08:28.120 that time it was Soviet, nuclear reactors are the safest in the world. 08:29.020 --> 08:34.200 It was publication in the EIA magazine in 1985 when reactors of 08:34.200 --> 08:37.480 Chernobyl type, at that time it was RBMK reactors, there are no 08:37.480 --> 08:39.580 Chernobyl type yet, are the safest. 08:40.020 --> 08:43.920 Now the same is told about the Russian reactors. 08:43.920 --> 08:48.940 It is not so far from Japanese telling in 2010 that Japanese nuclear 08:48.940 --> 08:51.780 industry is one of the safest, is not the safest one of the world. 08:52.260 --> 08:54.140 But the plans are already there. 08:54.600 --> 08:56.300 And what are the reasons of these plans? 08:56.380 --> 08:58.960 There are several of them and I will analyze a few of them. 08:59.060 --> 09:03.260 But one of the reasons which is quite important is that the reserves 09:03.260 --> 09:05.960 of the gas prom and gas reserves in Russia are decreasing. 09:06.500 --> 09:10.580 And in several years they will decrease in an extent that there will 09:10.580 --> 09:11.980 be not enough gas to export. 09:11.980 --> 09:16.480 And they want to replace internal gas consumption by nuclear, which 09:16.480 --> 09:20.080 sounds a bit strange, but how it works. 09:20.300 --> 09:23.160 And it's interesting to give one general figure which compares 09:23.160 --> 09:26.080 worldwide development of environmental situation in different 09:26.080 --> 09:28.360 countries, which was performed by the Yale University. 09:28.360 --> 09:34.660 And Russia in the environmental trends occupy the last place in the 09:34.660 --> 09:37.420 world as of data from 2012. 09:39.260 --> 09:44.200 132 countries and 132nd place is Russia's place in environmental 09:44.200 --> 09:45.560 trends in the world. 09:45.760 --> 09:49.980 106th place is among the environmental conditions, environmental 09:49.980 --> 09:50.920 performance index. 09:50.920 --> 09:53.380 By the way, Germany occupies 56th place. 09:54.620 --> 10:00.120 And the conditions in terms of changes and in terms of conditions, 10:00.340 --> 10:02.120 Germany occupies 11th place. 10:02.660 --> 10:04.620 So not bad, I would tell. 10:05.000 --> 10:08.540 Comparably to Russia, it's dramatically high. 10:09.920 --> 10:12.920 And that's what finally happens. 10:13.940 --> 10:17.160 Chernobyl was not the only nuclear catastrophe in Russia. 10:17.420 --> 10:21.160 And just to excuse, I am using not EIA terms. 10:21.280 --> 10:23.940 I am using terms which I am feeling are right. 10:24.220 --> 10:25.220 It was a catastrophe. 10:25.420 --> 10:28.040 And there were several nuclear catastrophes before. 10:28.440 --> 10:30.200 Some of them are still hidden and unknown. 10:30.340 --> 10:33.700 Information is, if not classified, absolutely unreachable. 10:33.800 --> 10:36.200 For example, Leningrad nuclear power plant, 75. 10:36.480 --> 10:37.840 Information is not available. 10:37.840 --> 10:42.380 Chechnya explosion of nuclear submarine, 85, just a year before 10:42.380 --> 10:42.800 Chernobyl. 10:43.180 --> 10:46.080 Information is hardly can be found out, suppressed. 10:46.220 --> 10:48.980 It was suppressed by untrained people. 10:49.520 --> 10:52.980 And I think information is classified because it's very limited 10:52.980 --> 10:55.620 information in public minds. 10:56.580 --> 11:01.820 There were also important catastrophes which seems to be similar to 11:01.820 --> 11:06.220 Chernobyl in terms of scale, happening in 57 and 67, when it was 11:06.220 --> 11:10.480 explosion of middle level waste storage next to Ural mountains. 11:10.980 --> 11:16.740 And when the storm distributes the sand, polluted sand, during very 11:16.740 --> 11:24.440 dry summer from the lake, where radioactive substances were 11:24.440 --> 11:25.020 discharged. 11:25.740 --> 11:30.520 At the time of the event, 400,000 people were somehow irradiated. 11:30.520 --> 11:35.140 Few villages were resettled, but three villages were left inside, till 11:35.140 --> 11:35.440 now. 11:35.760 --> 11:38.420 One of them already gone, but not because it was resettled. 11:38.500 --> 11:42.420 But two villages are still in the area which is not allowable for 11:42.420 --> 11:44.740 people to leave, even now. 11:45.440 --> 11:51.600 And last three years, one of the villages was resettled, partly, by 11:51.600 --> 11:55.700 Rosatom, this nuclear company which is exploiting stations. 11:55.700 --> 12:01.280 The people were moved in the zone which is still polluted according to 12:01.280 --> 12:04.380 the law, but a bit closer to the cemetery of this village. 12:05.040 --> 12:08.220 So the whole thing become much more comfortable for them. 12:08.760 --> 12:10.960 And there was direct corruption involved. 12:11.180 --> 12:18.500 Surprisingly, the state money, or corporation money, was given for 12:18.500 --> 12:22.100 this resettlement to a fund organized by three private persons. 12:23.180 --> 12:27.640 And it need, although we were writing a lot of complaints to the 12:27.640 --> 12:31.000 officials, the only case when they start investigation, when we 12:31.000 --> 12:34.160 managed to present a paper about corruption directly to President 12:34.160 --> 12:34.640 Medvedev. 12:35.340 --> 12:40.160 Only when he read it, he sees that there was a 40% of this 25,000 euro 12:40.160 --> 12:43.920 given to people, a kickback of 40% requested in the official 12:43.920 --> 12:44.520 documents. 12:45.440 --> 12:49.420 Only after that investigation started, there was a search in Rosatom 12:49.420 --> 12:50.620 and this corporation done. 12:50.620 --> 12:53.700 One person was arrested, probably several people were arrested. 12:53.840 --> 12:56.340 But that is an illustration of the whole situation with the nuclear 12:56.340 --> 12:57.020 industry now. 12:57.160 --> 12:59.500 It's not what happened 25, 26 years ago. 12:59.580 --> 13:01.300 It's what is happening just now. 13:01.720 --> 13:05.280 When you see this corruption, total disorder, sorry for using this 13:05.280 --> 13:09.740 word, in the nuclear energy system. 13:10.120 --> 13:14.200 And total attitude to the people who are suffering can only happen as 13:14.200 --> 13:16.560 a result of total disbalance in the minds of officials. 13:16.560 --> 13:20.520 I'm supporting my first sentence that it's total disbalance in the 13:20.520 --> 13:21.320 minds of officials. 13:21.780 --> 13:25.540 Spending money for Olympic Games, 12 billion which are coming there, 13:25.860 --> 13:29.440 and having 25,000 for those people who are suffering in the village 13:29.440 --> 13:32.860 for a settlement, which is honestly not enough, physically not enough. 13:32.940 --> 13:35.880 You need at least 40 to be resettled normally to the village to 13:35.880 --> 13:37.260 construct a building. 13:37.380 --> 13:39.300 What was the reason of this 25,000? 13:39.900 --> 13:41.720 It's a very interesting comparison story. 13:41.720 --> 13:46.020 When Putin was involved in the firefighting issue and used it for 13:46.020 --> 13:50.040 political debates, he promised and gave to people 50,000 euro for a 13:50.040 --> 13:52.060 settlement for those who suffer from fires. 13:52.540 --> 13:55.420 And these people from nuclear village was not involved in any 13:55.420 --> 13:56.320 political campaigns. 13:56.700 --> 13:58.460 That was just a thing which needed to be done. 13:58.500 --> 13:59.760 And it's 25,000. 14:00.200 --> 14:04.300 Just for those who don't know exactly the figures how much money 14:04.300 --> 14:07.240 liquidators from Chernobyl are receiving now in Russia. 14:07.700 --> 14:10.260 It's a bit less than 10 euros per month. 14:10.260 --> 14:12.440 It's 370 rubles. 14:12.800 --> 14:15.980 For those who know how much ruble is, you can imagine what is it. 14:16.060 --> 14:19.380 It's monthly payment for the people who were involved and who suffer, 14:19.780 --> 14:22.800 which is proved from Chernobyl liquidation 26 years ago. 14:22.920 --> 14:29.340 Not many of them are left, but it's what is given to them by the 14:29.340 --> 14:29.700 state. 14:29.920 --> 14:35.760 That's why it also demonstrates the attitude and how trustful can be 14:35.760 --> 14:36.420 these authorities. 14:36.420 --> 14:41.120 After that, even taking away all the technical issues, I would not 14:41.120 --> 14:43.740 trust what are they telling me about technical safety. 14:44.140 --> 14:47.960 I would suggest that they are lying immediately knowing the other 14:47.960 --> 14:48.300 story. 14:48.920 --> 14:52.560 Anyway, shortage of nuclear specialists is another story with the 14:52.560 --> 14:53.680 Russian nuclear problem. 14:54.180 --> 14:56.980 And safety of the reactors is also a question mark. 14:56.980 --> 15:01.180 And the most important development, which happened recently, is 15:01.180 --> 15:05.080 constructing a floating nuclear reactor, which will supply electricity 15:05.080 --> 15:09.340 to any distant point, starting from Indonesia and South America up to 15:09.340 --> 15:10.540 the northern part of Russia. 15:11.180 --> 15:14.160 That construction will be finished in one and a half year as max. 15:14.540 --> 15:20.500 And we'll have another strange facility, which will produce the most 15:20.500 --> 15:23.460 expensive electricity in the world, whatever you can imagine. 15:24.160 --> 15:25.980 But still, it's under construction. 15:26.920 --> 15:30.840 And the question mark is, what is the reason of such attitude? 15:31.600 --> 15:35.160 And many people ask me informally here, what is the reason of Russia 15:35.160 --> 15:38.100 developing nuclear program after what happened in Fukushima, after 15:38.100 --> 15:39.640 having Chekhov experience? 15:40.180 --> 15:42.880 And there are several reasons, which we can only guess. 15:43.240 --> 15:44.800 But the first one is definitely lobbying. 15:47.920 --> 15:49.980 And what else can I add to that? 15:49.980 --> 15:52.680 But the second, which is probably most important, is that current 15:52.680 --> 15:56.460 Russian officials, including Putin, including Medvedev and others, for 15:56.460 --> 16:00.080 whatever reasons, believe that if you want to have a great country, 16:00.200 --> 16:01.680 you need to have nuclear energy. 16:03.020 --> 16:08.660 And after that, they don't listen to any arguments. 16:09.300 --> 16:12.700 In fact, they don't take anything in mind. 16:12.800 --> 16:16.840 They believe that country must have nuclear energy, and let's go 16:16.840 --> 16:17.180 ahead. 16:17.180 --> 16:20.900 And also, they are not listening arguments and don't believe in 16:20.900 --> 16:21.440 alternatives. 16:22.200 --> 16:26.820 They believe that alternatives are a kind of toys of rich countries. 16:27.420 --> 16:32.340 And the literacy of top officials in the nuclear issues is like 16:32.340 --> 16:32.800 nothing. 16:33.300 --> 16:35.180 I can give you one example. 16:35.380 --> 16:40.140 Just recently, Vladimir Putin publicly stated that windmills are 16:40.140 --> 16:43.380 dangerous for the environment because they destroy soil warmth. 16:44.880 --> 16:47.900 It was a formal statement by Putin published. 16:49.100 --> 16:55.260 What else can I tell about the qualification of that person? 16:56.260 --> 16:58.960 And that 17:02.530 --> 17:03.150 is Chernobyl. 17:06.430 --> 17:10.650 Also, another thing, while alternatives is a problem one, is that 17:10.650 --> 17:14.450 government can hardly manage a big number of smaller facilities. 17:14.450 --> 17:17.350 They even cannot manage separate waste collection in big cities. 17:17.510 --> 17:22.370 They prefer to bring it together and then incinerate instead of 17:22.370 --> 17:24.010 separating, which is quite easy thing. 17:24.510 --> 17:28.590 But still, as my time is coming to the end, I will try to be very 17:28.590 --> 17:28.930 short. 17:29.530 --> 17:32.490 So, first of all, there are several things which are connected with 17:32.490 --> 17:33.190 nuclear in Russia. 17:34.210 --> 17:36.770 Lack of information, falsification of information. 17:36.890 --> 17:37.950 It's still happening. 17:38.290 --> 17:41.250 We can hardly get information on what happens after certain nuclear 17:41.250 --> 17:41.750 incidents. 17:44.170 --> 17:46.210 It's very complicated. 17:46.910 --> 17:49.730 True information is not coming, and when we speak about the 17:49.730 --> 17:51.690 information, it should be first of all true. 17:52.250 --> 17:53.290 And it's not coming. 17:53.750 --> 17:56.750 The second thing, there are no emergency plan for existing nuclear 17:56.750 --> 17:58.350 facility for local residents. 17:58.590 --> 18:02.110 It does not exist for the villages which are surrounding nuclear power 18:02.110 --> 18:02.530 plant. 18:03.350 --> 18:09.350 It is still consequences of nuclear energy are not known and not fully 18:09.350 --> 18:10.190 evaluated. 18:11.010 --> 18:16.030 One of the official statement of Rosatom was that there were 32 people 18:16.030 --> 18:17.350 who died from Chernobyl only. 18:17.470 --> 18:17.590 Why? 18:17.890 --> 18:21.190 If you take demographic data, just demographic data and properly apply 18:21.190 --> 18:24.750 demographic science, you will see that only in Russia around 40,000 18:24.750 --> 18:28.350 people died during 24 years after Chernobyl. 18:28.690 --> 18:32.390 And generally, including Soviet Union, there will be around 100,000 18:32.390 --> 18:35.850 -150,000, and you should get at least the same number of people in 18:35.850 --> 18:36.110 Europe. 18:36.550 --> 18:39.370 But it's another story about consequences. 18:39.370 --> 18:44.690 And as I have very short time, then I will tell about the attitude of 18:44.690 --> 18:45.090 population. 18:45.210 --> 18:46.470 I was telling about the officials. 18:46.630 --> 18:49.410 Population, unfortunately, is also behaving quite conformist. 18:49.970 --> 18:54.410 And generally, people are split more or less half by half, with a bit 18:54.410 --> 18:58.810 bigger than 50% supporting nuclear energy, a bit bigger. 18:59.150 --> 19:02.210 The only time when population is starting to fight against nuclear 19:02.210 --> 19:07.490 power plant and when they become aware about nuclear power, it's when 19:07.490 --> 19:10.890 the plant is planned near in their backyard, in their province. 19:11.230 --> 19:15.830 Then 80% of people become aware, and 80-90% of people don't want 19:15.830 --> 19:17.810 nuclear power to be constructed in their region. 19:18.390 --> 19:22.390 But unfortunately, according to the national laws, their voice doesn't 19:22.390 --> 19:23.110 mean anything. 19:23.510 --> 19:26.150 And there was already a referendum in one of the Russian provinces 19:26.150 --> 19:29.690 which vote against nuclear power, but the Supreme Court tells that 19:29.690 --> 19:30.530 it's wrong voting. 19:30.530 --> 19:32.950 They have no right, and nuclear power was constructed. 19:33.650 --> 19:34.910 It's now there. 19:35.710 --> 19:38.030 So I'm trying to finalize the whole thing. 19:38.410 --> 19:41.990 General conclusions, a few general conclusions, and if somebody would 19:41.990 --> 19:45.370 like to ask me questions, I can answer questions after the lecture, so 19:45.370 --> 19:46.050 please do it. 19:46.570 --> 19:50.150 And my belief is that environmental technological disasters generally 19:50.150 --> 19:54.050 are a case in the first, and not because of bad technologies or unsafe 19:54.050 --> 19:54.530 technologies. 19:54.650 --> 19:57.050 The first wrong thing is what I've told. 19:57.050 --> 20:01.270 It's bad minds, it's disorder in people's minds, which is in turn 20:01.270 --> 20:04.950 causing using of bad technologies or unsafe technologies, or improper 20:04.950 --> 20:06.290 using of good technologies. 20:07.550 --> 20:11.590 And many, very often people, and starting from the officials, but also 20:11.590 --> 20:15.310 human beings, just ordinary human beings, are not ready to think about 20:15.310 --> 20:16.410 long -term consequences. 20:16.890 --> 20:20.150 They believe that events which just have possibility will never happen 20:20.150 --> 20:21.030 in their backyard. 20:21.470 --> 20:23.870 That's what happens with Chernobyl, that's what happens with 20:23.870 --> 20:27.850 Fukushima, that's what may happen with other nuclear plants. 20:28.110 --> 20:32.030 I would remind the statement which, as Greenpeace International, we 20:32.030 --> 20:36.690 did at the 20th anniversary of Chernobyl, six years ago, that there 20:36.690 --> 20:39.610 are obviously no questions if the next nuclear catastrophe happens. 20:40.070 --> 20:43.550 There are only questions when it will happen and where. 20:43.970 --> 20:45.670 And since that time, Fukushima happens. 20:46.030 --> 20:49.090 I can repeat these words, there are no questions if the next nuclear 20:49.090 --> 20:49.970 catastrophe happens. 20:50.090 --> 20:51.310 It will inevitably happen. 20:51.310 --> 20:51.470 There are no questions. 20:51.470 --> 20:53.970 It's only a question when and where. 20:54.690 --> 20:58.290 And that's why it's much better to escape all the technologies which 20:58.290 --> 21:01.070 are threatening, and with a small possibility, which have a capacity 21:01.070 --> 21:04.310 to influence half of the globe, like what happens with Chernobyl. 21:04.850 --> 21:08.490 And with the environment itself, it's also a question with the climate 21:08.490 --> 21:11.470 changes, which is the most threatening problem now. 21:11.930 --> 21:15.530 There are a lot of environmental problems worldwide, but the one which 21:15.530 --> 21:18.670 is really coming and which is inevitable is climate change. 21:18.670 --> 21:22.410 And there are a lot of governments who are behaving selfish and 21:22.410 --> 21:26.410 believe that either the job will be done by somebody else, or that the 21:26.410 --> 21:28.390 job will be done when they will retire. 21:30.370 --> 21:33.570 And I think that is what needs to be resolved. 21:34.310 --> 21:37.390 At the end, I would like to tell that I was not trying to be too 21:37.390 --> 21:37.890 pessimistic. 21:38.050 --> 21:40.370 I was trying just to bring some objective information. 21:40.630 --> 21:43.930 Unfortunately, that was not an academic lecture, but I hope that you 21:43.930 --> 21:44.430 enjoyed. 21:44.770 --> 21:47.650 And now you have a chance to judge about order or disorder. 21:47.650 --> 21:48.230 Thank you.