WEBVTT 00:18.460 --> 00:25.120 Welcome to the Institute for Thermal Energy Systems and Safety, which 00:25.120 --> 00:28.580 is located at the campus north of the Karlsruhe Institute of 00:28.580 --> 00:29.160 Technology. 00:31.180 --> 00:37.320 This campus north has a history as a Helmholtz research center. 00:38.180 --> 00:45.880 It was founded in the year 1956 mainly for nuclear safety research or 00:45.880 --> 00:48.220 for nuclear technology developments also. 00:49.060 --> 00:57.320 Nowadays it's the largest German located center for energy research of 00:57.320 --> 00:59.080 the Helmholtz Association. 00:59.920 --> 01:04.580 And at this institute I'm heading the hydrogen department, which is 01:04.580 --> 01:11.180 doing hydrogen safety research, still for nuclear topics, but even 01:11.180 --> 01:18.360 more for non-nuclear technologies, hydrogen as an energy carrier. 01:19.140 --> 01:21.460 For the thermonuclear as well. 01:22.180 --> 01:27.000 Yes, so my colleague Alex Ekoturko is currently heading an 01:27.000 --> 01:33.680 international project for the safety of fusion reactors. 01:34.540 --> 01:36.780 So we are still looking in nuclear future. 01:45.010 --> 01:52.170 So, well, I take this opportunity to announce that the Hydrogen Safety 01:52.170 --> 01:58.870 International Journal has been initiated and inaugurated officially. 01:59.190 --> 02:03.870 So the website is active and we are already processing the first 02:03.870 --> 02:06.950 contributions, first papers. 02:07.570 --> 02:12.650 We are expecting that within the next days there is material. 02:12.650 --> 02:16.030 At least the first article must appear. 02:25.120 --> 02:30.900 Just when we speak about the open access journals, it would be nice to 02:30.900 --> 02:34.080 emphasize that there are different models of this. 02:34.320 --> 02:38.900 One of these, which we would call a diamond model, when really it's 02:38.900 --> 02:42.720 open for the authors and for the readers. 02:43.500 --> 02:48.220 And this is what we are trying to implement in our journal because 02:48.220 --> 02:55.440 this really makes the possibility for the community to be informed 02:55.440 --> 02:56.380 fully. 02:57.940 --> 03:01.520 There are no limitations from both sides. 03:02.480 --> 03:04.360 This is really important. 03:05.460 --> 03:09.480 To add to this, the only selection criteria for our journal now is 03:09.480 --> 03:09.900 quality. 03:10.420 --> 03:15.020 This means art, whether somebody is able to pay for the publication or 03:15.020 --> 03:17.040 somebody will pay for reading the content. 03:17.040 --> 03:18.520 But it's only the quality. 03:18.780 --> 03:23.800 This is our hope, that this is prevailing in the end, that good 03:23.800 --> 03:29.360 quality is something worthwhile to work for. 03:29.480 --> 03:34.680 This is our goal, to have a really open access, completely open, but 03:34.680 --> 03:36.260 the journals of very high quality. 03:44.250 --> 03:51.710 I think it would be good to mention that actually the need and the 03:51.710 --> 03:56.410 journal we have recognized in our community already, maybe more than 03:56.410 --> 03:57.270 10 years ago. 03:57.850 --> 04:06.830 This is like on one of the General Assembly in the year 2015. 04:07.570 --> 04:12.930 It was already the first announcement that we need a journal for the 04:12.930 --> 04:13.330 community. 04:14.730 --> 04:18.350 Well, for the background knowledge, it's important to know that the 04:18.350 --> 04:22.270 community, which is HI-SAFE, this is the International Association, 04:23.110 --> 04:24.970 was formed in the year 2003. 04:26.190 --> 04:30.470 Since the very beginning, there was the idea to have a, let's say, 04:30.530 --> 04:37.270 continuous way to communicate the progress of the community in the 04:37.270 --> 04:38.910 field of hygiene and safety research. 04:39.870 --> 04:44.550 We did it initially and still do it with the conference, which is the 04:44.550 --> 04:46.510 International Conference for Hydrogen Safety. 04:48.710 --> 04:55.570 There we have had in the past a special experience with the 04:55.570 --> 05:00.790 proceedings of this conference and with publication of the best papers 05:00.790 --> 05:01.870 or best contributions. 05:09.240 --> 05:15.380 So, we had to make sure that we have the appropriate support of the 05:15.380 --> 05:21.560 community, because it's utmost important that the scientific content 05:21.560 --> 05:26.880 is provided and that the community is willing to support this 05:26.880 --> 05:27.380 activity. 05:29.100 --> 05:33.100 The other point is, of course, to make sure that the funding for these 05:33.100 --> 05:35.640 first steps is there. 05:35.640 --> 05:42.080 And then everything will be for the later planning, of course. 05:42.320 --> 05:53.980 Now the first phase is secured and now we have to make it visible to 05:53.980 --> 05:54.420 everybody. 06:01.260 --> 06:05.740 So, for all the discussion, it is important to understand what is 06:05.740 --> 06:07.160 behind the word safety. 06:07.160 --> 06:14.560 There is even an ISO or IEC definition of safety, which means the 06:14.560 --> 06:16.920 freedom from unaccepted risks. 06:17.720 --> 06:22.560 This means this can be individually different than societal 06:22.560 --> 06:24.780 definitions of acceptance. 06:25.840 --> 06:31.700 There might be differences depending on culture and on the general 06:31.700 --> 06:35.100 background, whether you accept something as safe or not. 06:36.380 --> 06:40.800 A fundamental insight you might gain from looking into nuclear safety. 06:41.120 --> 06:47.800 There are communities which consider nuclear technology as safe and as 06:47.800 --> 06:54.080 a necessity for the further maturing and developing of their society. 06:54.680 --> 06:56.760 Other communities think differently. 07:04.240 --> 07:11.700 Well, safety in itself is a public topic and shouldn't be left to the 07:11.700 --> 07:15.800 industry or shouldn't be left to a closed scientific circle. 07:16.540 --> 07:21.740 Therefore, it breaks up a little bit those conspirational tendencies 07:22.540 --> 07:30.140 and brings, let's say, or sheds light on what is actually done in this 07:30.140 --> 07:33.000 domain, which is of public concern. 07:33.800 --> 07:40.460 If we want to promote the introduction of hydrogen as an energy 07:40.460 --> 07:47.340 carrier and want to make it in a safe way, we have to publish the 07:47.340 --> 07:48.280 state of the art. 07:49.580 --> 07:51.600 This is how you do it. 07:51.600 --> 07:59.780 You have a journal, you have a conference, and there we define what is 07:59.780 --> 08:04.880 actually learned and what should be considered in any installation of 08:04.880 --> 08:09.780 hydrogen to do it safe and how to do it safe. 08:11.180 --> 08:17.520 So you know that for, at least for certain normative and regulatory 08:17.520 --> 08:21.100 backgrounds, it's important that you follow the state of the art. 08:21.820 --> 08:22.900 But how is it defined? 08:23.180 --> 08:27.620 Of course, there are standards, which have their own business model, 08:27.980 --> 08:28.800 to be honest. 08:29.660 --> 08:32.380 Then there is a regulation which should be published. 08:33.560 --> 08:39.280 But beyond these kind of established things and quite mature things, 08:39.500 --> 08:44.580 there is an ever-progressing scientific community who does pre 08:44.580 --> 08:46.220 -normative research. 08:46.880 --> 08:52.880 And this is actually defining the whole sphere of state of the art. 08:53.460 --> 08:55.160 And you need to publish this. 09:03.240 --> 09:06.380 Safety is a thing which should be... 09:06.380 --> 09:08.840 You know, the safety doesn't know boundaries. 09:09.020 --> 09:12.620 And if something goes wrong in China, if a refueling station blows up 09:12.620 --> 09:16.840 there, it will have an impact on Europe and others. 09:17.860 --> 09:19.900 So therefore, it's an open thing. 09:19.900 --> 09:24.660 For example, the model of the safety in nuclear stuff before in 09:24.660 --> 09:25.680 Germany, how it was. 09:26.220 --> 09:30.680 The government or the politicians, they were pressed industry. 09:30.900 --> 09:34.280 And industry come to us and order the work. 09:35.140 --> 09:37.760 I mean, new knowledge for the safety. 09:38.420 --> 09:40.660 And therefore, it was necessary to support. 09:41.160 --> 09:43.320 For the hydrogen, it's not exactly like that. 09:43.320 --> 09:53.000 And therefore, this safety research or pre-normative research or real 09:53.000 --> 09:56.800 research, fundamental research, is not supported directly by industry. 10:03.330 --> 10:08.310 Well, but I wanted to get back to this previous point about industry 10:08.310 --> 10:14.570 role and public role in safety, which was in nuclear an obvious 10:14.570 --> 10:21.730 interplay or a strict requirement of the public side of the government 10:21.730 --> 10:25.090 to implement safety in nuclear. 10:25.650 --> 10:29.630 This is obvious because everybody was afraid of larger accidents and 10:29.630 --> 10:35.270 nuclear contaminations of the environment and even large numbers of 10:35.270 --> 10:40.090 fatalities associated with a large accident. 10:41.910 --> 10:46.970 Now, this is true what Alexei was mentioning that now with hydrogen, 10:47.290 --> 10:50.130 this catastrophic potential has been reduced. 10:50.910 --> 10:56.610 And the chemical industry knows how to deal with hydrogen safely since 10:56.610 --> 10:57.370 decades. 10:58.490 --> 11:03.670 The point here is, however, that if we want to bring this hydrogen 11:03.670 --> 11:09.350 into the private environment, we have different kind of or new 11:09.350 --> 11:13.090 technologies operated at different pressures, different temperatures, 11:13.710 --> 11:17.130 close to the untrained user and user. 11:17.410 --> 11:20.530 And these make these issues really relevant. 11:20.530 --> 11:26.550 And it's important nowadays, as you see in other domains, the public 11:26.550 --> 11:28.950 is very sensitive to changes. 11:29.770 --> 11:33.450 And if you require that people have to accept that something is 11:33.450 --> 11:37.110 happening in their backyards, they don't want to see it there. 11:37.850 --> 11:40.550 You have to have acceptance for these technologies. 11:40.970 --> 11:45.530 And you have to have, let's say, a solid understanding and show that 11:45.530 --> 11:46.830 you understand what you're doing. 11:47.410 --> 11:51.290 Otherwise, the people will mistrust you and don't accept this change. 11:51.370 --> 11:54.710 Because we can do a lot in the technical domain if the people don't 11:54.710 --> 11:55.210 buy it. 11:56.170 --> 11:58.090 No, from one side, this is like that. 11:58.150 --> 12:01.030 From another side, the people does not expect from the hydrogen 12:01.030 --> 12:02.490 something catastrophic things. 12:03.490 --> 12:06.790 And they say, no, okay, a little bit, you know, something about 12:06.790 --> 12:09.250 safety, the scientists will care about it. 12:09.330 --> 12:09.970 And that's it. 12:10.390 --> 12:15.010 There is no really pressure like with nuclear from the community. 12:15.840 --> 12:21.510 And therefore, we are somehow living in these compromised conditions. 12:22.590 --> 12:27.330 Yes, from one side, everybody is interested in safety, but not so 12:27.330 --> 12:27.690 much. 12:32.100 --> 12:33.480 It's a general problem. 12:33.740 --> 12:38.240 Safety is seen by the industry as a necessary requirement and not a 12:38.240 --> 12:40.400 part of a sustainable concept. 12:41.120 --> 12:44.960 Because if you're not safe with your product, it will be too 12:44.960 --> 12:45.400 expensive. 12:45.400 --> 12:47.360 No, this is our problem. 12:47.460 --> 12:50.900 We are complaining all the time that there is not enough support. 12:51.180 --> 12:51.800 You see this. 12:51.920 --> 12:53.400 Ah, you don't understand. 12:56.680 --> 12:58.460 Okay, selling safety. 12:58.700 --> 13:00.360 This is a difficult task. 13:09.300 --> 13:15.600 I did my PhD here, not exactly in this library, but I was spending a 13:15.600 --> 13:19.160 lot of time in the former KIT library. 13:21.060 --> 13:30.760 And also, you know, it was quite a big effort to stay tuned with the 13:30.760 --> 13:33.120 content you wanted to work on. 13:33.980 --> 13:40.700 Later on, it was always difficult, especially if you wanted to access 13:40.700 --> 13:45.860 very specialized material to get access to, and partially it was 13:45.860 --> 13:46.420 expensive. 13:46.420 --> 13:50.660 And it took a long time to get copies from here to there. 13:51.940 --> 13:57.080 Later, especially then within this high-safe community, it turned out 13:57.080 --> 14:05.820 that publishing selected material was always depending on the 14:05.820 --> 14:11.180 willingness of established journals to have a high impact factor and 14:11.180 --> 14:17.100 to, let's say, convince those established journals to publish your 14:17.100 --> 14:17.640 material. 14:17.640 --> 14:24.980 And you were very much dependent on the requirements there, and of 14:24.980 --> 14:30.280 course also on, let's say, the necessity to pay for these 14:30.280 --> 14:31.480 publications. 14:32.000 --> 14:39.200 So we needed a special budget, and to be honest, this was leading more 14:39.200 --> 14:45.140 or less to the desire or the strong wish of the community to have 14:45.140 --> 14:46.100 their own journal. 14:46.100 --> 14:54.920 Because, well, maybe I can add to this, hydrogen is a growing topic, 14:55.820 --> 15:00.900 and this means that these established channels are also growing. 15:01.380 --> 15:09.380 This means that it's now the right time to diversify the content and 15:09.380 --> 15:14.660 have more specific journals on specific topics, like for hydrogen 15:14.660 --> 15:15.060 safety. 15:22.020 --> 15:27.960 Well, this is the way how scientific communities tend to think, 15:28.120 --> 15:30.240 because they are not commercially thinking. 15:31.240 --> 15:36.660 They like to exchange their new insights, their new knowledge gains, 15:36.900 --> 15:39.520 and share them openly. 15:40.680 --> 15:46.100 Most of the research is effectively paid by the public side, and means 15:46.100 --> 15:51.640 there is a right from the public side to have an insight what goes on 15:51.640 --> 15:52.660 in these communities. 15:53.460 --> 16:00.640 And there is no right to commercialize this public money or to misuse 16:00.640 --> 16:07.300 it in a certain way, to make additional money with this public 16:07.300 --> 16:07.720 funding. 16:07.720 --> 16:13.300 So the principle idea, once again, is to provide a channel for the 16:13.300 --> 16:17.280 community, which is a strong community, which has grown now more than 16:17.280 --> 16:18.020 20 years. 16:20.380 --> 16:28.540 And there is, again, a very strong need among those who do hydrogen 16:28.540 --> 16:36.460 safety research to publish their ideas and models and findings. 16:37.220 --> 16:42.680 Just not only old community, but also growing community. 16:42.820 --> 16:49.360 For example, last week we have an appointment or applications from 16:49.360 --> 16:51.700 another almost 10 members. 16:51.700 --> 17:01.260 Therefore, this is well known and well accepted in this hydrogen 17:01.260 --> 17:07.280 safety community, and maybe industrial also, and research 17:07.280 --> 17:09.700 organizations as well. 17:15.620 --> 17:24.200 As we are just discussing living books, there are other activities 17:24.200 --> 17:36.080 around, for instance, making an interactive worksheet or domain, where 17:36.080 --> 17:43.460 you can use and modify correlations or tables, you can extend tables 17:43.460 --> 17:48.140 or use simple engineering correlations directly. 17:50.320 --> 17:55.620 And a part of it was implemented by the American partners in the high 17:55.620 --> 18:01.740 -RAM tool, but again, it became a more classical tool, a software 18:01.740 --> 18:02.160 tool. 18:02.160 --> 18:07.240 But what we were thinking of when we were actually planning the book, 18:07.420 --> 18:12.400 which we edited, Alexei and myself, was to have something interactive, 18:13.540 --> 18:19.500 which could be also then easily updated, not waiting for, let's say, a 18:19.500 --> 18:20.540 classical publication. 18:20.540 --> 18:26.200 To be honest, the book was grown from the high-safety project, which 18:26.200 --> 18:31.980 had a part of the project, it was so-called bi-annual report. 18:32.280 --> 18:36.100 It was bi-annual because it was supposed that every two years it will 18:36.100 --> 18:37.560 be seriously updated. 18:38.300 --> 18:42.500 And after that, with the same idea, we collected this in a book, and 18:42.500 --> 18:47.520 the book was published, also with a hidden somehow idea that it will 18:47.520 --> 18:53.780 be something continuous, at least either in the form of the editions, 18:54.140 --> 19:00.880 like a traditional way of the books, but this is maybe what you are 19:00.880 --> 19:05.140 mentioning, as a living document, it would be even better. 19:05.140 --> 19:10.240 And if there will be what Thomas mentioned, like part of the book 19:10.240 --> 19:17.320 would be implemented somehow on a web, which will give the people, I 19:17.320 --> 19:22.120 don't know, either the owner of the book or maybe to everybody, with 19:22.120 --> 19:27.960 some calculator, some simple codes, it would be great. 19:27.960 --> 19:32.720 Well, this could be even a part of an innovative element in the 19:32.720 --> 19:33.000 journal. 19:33.900 --> 19:41.560 So, agreeing on this, we could have maybe elements like formulas or 19:41.560 --> 19:48.520 graphs to be interactive, which could be a translation of this idea 19:48.520 --> 19:50.680 into a journal setting. 19:52.060 --> 19:54.780 Possibly this would be an approach, which is worthwhile. 19:55.020 --> 20:01.040 Once again, it was partially even implemented in the very early phase 20:01.040 --> 20:05.740 of HySafe, as we developed this wiki machine. 20:06.160 --> 20:10.520 So, we had a wiki, which was about hygiene safety, and most of the 20:10.520 --> 20:14.580 original content, which was then translated into this first book, was 20:14.580 --> 20:17.840 already alive in this wiki website. 20:17.840 --> 20:24.960 So, wikis are maybe a nice concept and are, let's say, sort of a 20:24.960 --> 20:26.600 template for these things.